This is from my post in an email discussion with some coworkers, edited for a more general audience.
Many Americans believe that people who grow up in China have been brainwashed. There were many times during the torch relay event that the phrase “because you are brainwashed” caused a conversation to end abruptly. Back when I was a college student in China, I disliked the government as much as any of you here do, probably more. The same is true for many other students. If the government intended to brainwash the students, then I can assure you it wasn’t very successful. I was thoroughly disgusted by many things, and I used to organize protests against the school authority. Then I came to the US, both because the US has some of the world’s best universities and because I disliked the Chinese government. I studied for 5 years in a PhD program here and have worked for less than one year. During these 6 years, my attitude toward the Chinese government has been gradually changed and I started to understand why things are that way in China and found many of the things I hated become understandable, not because the Chinese government can remotely brain-wash me from the other side of the ocean but because there is comparison. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that China is better than or anywhere close to the US. But I do see many of the things I disliked in China happening here, sometimes in more subtle ways, sometimes to a lesser extent. Seeing that with the abundance of wealth and resource, a relatively small population, the strongest military force, and strong international influence, the US still have so many problems, it seemed to me that the Chinese government had been doing a decent job managing the country. There are plenty of Chinese people who support the government on many issues and policies, and believe it or not it is most likely because their lives are improved rapidly, not because of government propaganda. Sure there are a lot of propaganda on the Chinese medias, but they are so superficial and obvious that they largely get ignored or made fun of. From this aspect, I would argue that the US has a more powerful propaganda machine to serve its interests and ideology (it probably started influencing me back when I was in China).
Many people I know have similar feelings. Many of those who went to San Francisco to protect the torch were also on the Tian’an Men Square in 1989.
I think it is unfair and impractical to expect China to do the same things that the US does now w.r.t. to issues like human rights, freedom of speech, etc. China has a long cultural history, but as a modern country, it has less than 60 years of history, while the social, governmental, and legal systems in the US have evolved for hundreds of years, not to mention China’s huge population and relatively small farmable land. Whenever a problem about China is discussed, there is always someone who comes out and say “Simple. Why not just let people vote for a decision?” It’s not that simple. Our laws have huge holes; Different ethnic groups can have serious conflicts because of religion and cultural differences; Our government is immature and afraid of uncertainty; Our whole social system is too fragile and don’t have enough buffer to survive instability. Fixing these problems takes time, and we’ve come a long way. Voting is not a trivial process, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many debates in the US about the procedure and machinery of voting. Other governments can easily point fingers at China only because they don’t have to solve China’s problems. One example comes to mind — the one-child policy. It had been criticized for a long time by westerners for human rights violation. Reagan questioned that policy when he visited China, but the conversation ended when Deng said the restriction could be lifted if the US could help by accepting 10 million Chinese immigrants per year. In the city where I grew up, I know a number of families who had two or more kids. They paid a fine, and did not get the monthly single-child stipend from the government. It’s simple. But it does not surprise me if there are government officials in certain places who enforced this policy in ways that violated human rights and created tragedies. In the 80s and 90s, even now, the low-level government officials in some rural areas didn’t get chance to receive much education due to the cultural revolution. It’s a tragedy of that whole generation, a tragedy for both the victims and wrong-doers. In the same way, I don’t doubt there are many Tibetans whose families suffered great pain and loss in certain periods, just like many people in other parts of China. They have my greatest sympathy. However, such tragedies are usually exaggerated to sound like systematically planned crime in order to serve political goals.
I grew up in the Yunnan province (next to Tibet), where many Tibetans live, so I’ve visited some Tibetan monasteries. My wife travelled a large region in Tibet – from Lasa all the way to the Everest, talked to many Tibetans, lived in Tibetan homes. I don’t want to bring up too much opinion. Let me just say that from our experience we do not think the government is against the Tibetan culture or has any plan to reduce the Tibetan population — Tibetans don’t have to pay tax (although many of them still choose to contribute much of their wealth to the monasteries); Large amounts of money is spent maintaining the monasteries; Tibetans receive enough stipend so that they can have a decent live without working (such social benefit doesn’t exist in other parts of China); Tibetans can have 3 children (or more for a small fee) instead of one. My wife also got warned when entering Tibet that if she got involved in any kind of conflict with Tibetans, most likely the local government and police will not help her, to avoid stirring up the tension between different ethnic groups.
We all agree that China has problems: human rights, freedom of speech, etc. But I don’t believe there is such a thing that one country or government helps to improve human rights in another country. A country only helps itself. The US government only supports freedom and self-determination when it serves its national interest. I’m not accusing the US, this probably applies to all governments. I have a pessimistic view of international politics, so when a government is paying money for something happening elsewhere, I always doubt its intention. From unclassified US government documents, the Dalai Lama had been on CIA payroll until the mid 70s when the US and China establishes foreign relationship, then he got transfered to another organization with the phrase “human rights” in it. The same set of documents also show that the US had been training a Tibetan army in Colorado and dropping them back to Tibet as gorilla fighters. “Human rights” sounds so good and is so widely applicable that it is the most convenient phrase to use when a government needs to explain to tax payers why their money is used to help overthrow another government. Yes, there are problems in the Chinese government, we all acknowledge that. There is no incentive for a Chinese to hide the government’s shortcomings, after all, a better government means a better China and better lives for Chinese. However, I believe the Chinese people have enough wisdom and courage to solve their own problems. We know the US government’s capability of “introducing” democracy into another country — there are plenty of examples to look at. Thanks, but no, thanks. China is unique, and there is more than one way to democracy.
I hope people from different nations don’t accuse each other of “brain-washed” simply because they have different opinions or they are not expressing their opinions clearly due to language/cultural barriers.
I believe most Americans who support “Free Tibet” have good intentions and have very good reasons for their attitude. But be sure to do enough research to make sure your good will is not misused by others. (Note that this is a suggestion, not an assertion.) I’m not trying to change anyone’s opinion, just want to let others know what people with similar backgrounds with me might think.
Comments 15
Impressive.
Especially-” Chinese people have enough wisdom and courage to solve their own problems.”
Posted 12 Apr 2008 at 11:13 pm ¶Nice article.
A few comments.
Actually the files are declassified not long ago, despite CIA’s effort to keep them unclassified. But people and the news media seemed to ignore those FACTS and keep saying Dalai is non-violent. Obviously their definition of violence is different from the rest of the world.
The population of Tibetans are keep increasing starting from XiZhang liberation. From the early 90s, the population of the Han ethnic group in XiZhang (Tibet) kept decreasing. Check the numbers and it is very clear to conclude.
Posted 15 Apr 2008 at 12:36 pm ¶Just like J has addressed, the so called brain wash system in China was not that successful. In fact, it did brain wash people to consciously doubt anything that brought onto the public, if you still call it “brain wash”. The similar system in the West apparently does a great job, to let most people believe what their government does to the other countries, including wars, are for the “good” of that region instead of itself; and also believe Chinese government is evil that almost everything it does is tyranny. This is a system that exploits people’s good intension as political instruments, makes one think he has a choice but in fact he does not. You decide which one is more terrible.
Same as J, the reaction of the West towards Tibetan riot really made me rethink about the Chinese domestic governing system. The one side criticism did not solve any real problems of China, but did one thing good – forcing every Chinese, domestic or abroad or Taiwanese, to stand united on one side. The business is our own, and we worked and will work harder than any outsiders towards the solution.
Posted 16 Apr 2008 at 3:10 am ¶China has gone from a communist cultural propaganda to a nationalist idealism withing the last hundred years or less. There is a severe repression of the freedom of speech, religion and expression. For instance the government in Beijing suppresses and censors outside news. Even the internet is blocked by the “Great Firewall” to allow only which will not incite democratic movement. When China came to Tibet in 1910, they killed the men and raped the women. When they came back again in 1959, they destroyed Tibetan monasteries and killed monks inside in the name of “Liberation”. In fact, the PLA drew faces of Mao in Tibetan monasteries walls and where there were ancient Tibetan murals and frescoes. Even the Chinese propaganda was painted on the walls. Tibetan people have suffered under the communist regime of China. Where has the government of China hidden the Panchen Lama, Gendun Choekyi Nima? Why does China want to control the succession of high lamas after their death? Question yourself. Clear your conscience.
Posted 21 Apr 2008 at 6:12 pm ¶Hi Salt Laker,
Your comment just sounds like typical Dalai-Lama propaganda. Any source for the claims you have made?
Posted 22 Apr 2008 at 9:43 pm ¶Very well written and informative piece. However, I can attest to the fact that many higher educated Chinese I’ve done business with in recent years are shockingly ignorant when it comes to certain issues — specifically — Chairman Mao. Despite the PRC’s attempts to downplay the man’s bruatality and make him into some so of humble granfather figure, a surprising number of Chinese are clueless at the man’s brutality and reputation outside of China as the 3rd worst mass murderer behind Hitler and Stalin in the 20th Century. In fact, most discount such notions as laughable. Yet, outside of China and (North Korea sic:, every day students throughout the world are taught the truth about this monster — and, that’s what he was. Of course, I always love it when some say — he’s a great man because he built the infrastucture required for China’s economic success of today. However, would that not be like saying Hitler was a great man simply because he built the Autobaum, etc.???
The point I’m making is this — blatant disregard of the TRUTH — as in embellishing a vile, worthless piece of chicken shit like Mao, is just as bad as blatant propaganda. And for those that are angered by my comments, might I suggest you are the real victims of the the government he founded. Fact is — the PRC knows, free elections equals the end of communism …. plain and simple. Maybe that is why they haver turned the Olympic Games into a sickening display of nationalism. Wonder what most CHinese that protest the Japanese would think if they knew the real truth — that being that Mao and his commie army signed a non-aggression treaty with the Imperial Japanese. Then, they sat back and waited until the time was right to take the country by force. So today’s PRC is really no different — cowards who have so little faith in the Chinese people that they do anything to maintain power. Fortunately they are now showing the entire world just have restrictive they are — for God’s sake, telling fans they will be arrested if they cheer to loud or wear anti-Chinese t-shirts. Talk about ignorance … I just hope the western nations wil wake up, boycott the nation, and force change.
Posted 26 Jul 2008 at 4:09 pm ¶Irie82:
Have you ever questioned what you have learned about China (and Mao), the stuff you called “TRUTH”. You cannot simply dismiss different opinions as ignorance. Chances are that people who actually live in China know much more about China than you do.
As for free election, well, if you look at the recent survey at http://people-press.org/, have you wondered why the Chinese government has a much higher approval rating than your democratically elected government? Because people feel their lives are getting better and better. It’s true the Chinese cannot elect another party, but I don’t really see a viable alternative to the current government. By the way, have you ever thought about how many of the changes you’d like to see in your country actually got implemented by your elected government?
Restricting protests? The US just arrested a few Hawaii-independence activists a few days ago.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 1:17 pm ¶你正好在换服务器的时候发了个回复，所以丢掉了。帮你补上：
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 12:27 am ¶不得不说，这里回复的两位外国朋友才是被洗脑的典型，从用词和语气上看，和国内的愤青没什么本质区别。
而且人们在这方面似乎都很骄傲很盲目。大家都只顾朝着对方大喊。他们不会听你的，你也不会听他们的（俺觉得你的很多论断，其实都是有很大商量余地的议题。比如评论7里边的一些话）。交流真得很难，改变一个人的成见更是难上加难。
Posted 04 Oct 2008 at 2:39 am ¶Hello! Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource! PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language
See you!
Your, Raiul Baztepo
Posted 28 Mar 2009 at 4:04 pm ¶看了博主在society category 里面写的一些文章，有些话不吐不快。 首先，brain washing system 在中国确实存在，这是无可争议的。在这里请不要把brain washing system 和 government propaganda system混为一谈。首先任何一个政党都不可能没有倾向性和政治主张，因此任何一个当权的政党利用自己的优势地位向人们灌输一种有倾向性的主流意识，不管这种意识是什么，都这无可厚非，关键是它是否容许其他的意识存在。 Pan Yu 说的没错，西方主流文化的宣传机器的确强大，很多时候可能并不客观，但是就整个社会体系来说并不是brain washing system，因为主流文化虽然尽一切可能扩大自己的影响力，但法律上他没有权利屏蔽其他的声音，只要你愿意，你可以轻而易举的接收到各种反主流文化和观点，这种综合性起码给你提供了一种独立思考形成客观看法的可能。比如tibet问题，就算西方所有媒体 one side criticism，但在西方国家你可以很容易的了解中方的对此的报导，并公开支持并传播中方立场。再如hawaii independence，虽然我对这个事情并不了解，我想美国政府并不会因为不支持它而封锁它的网站吧？www.hawaii-nation.org/ 在美国能访问否？ 但在藏× 法×× 的网站在中国呢？一般民众能接触到什么？首先境外中文新闻媒体基本全部屏蔽，境内中文媒体别说反动题材了，任何与主流宣传不符的言论和报道都不得不慎之又慎，主动阉割和选择性过滤的情况比比皆是，作为一个在中国大陆长大，并且仍然留在国内的中国人，我不知道博主“Chances are that people who actually live in China know much more about China than you do.”的结论从何而来，举个最简单的例子：如果不采取翻墙等手段，大陆学生基本不可能获得对中国近现代史中重大事件的详细知识，对于自己国家的公民隐瞒自己国家的历史这不是brain wash是什么？如果说在西方人们可能会被自己的主流媒体所误导不了解真相的话，在中国国内，中国人在很多问题上被根本剥夺了了解真相，至少是进行是非判断的权利。You decide which one is more terrible. 再就是中国zf对人民进行的brain wash的目的，brain wash并不是要让你相信政府有多么伟大，正如Pan Yu所说，这种东西反而会让你很恶心，想想吧，对于一个理性的正常人来说时刻要强迫的接受一个主流的观念（不管他对还是错），而且不允许在公开的场合发表自己对这一观点独立的看法是很郁闷的。政府之所以这么做首先是因为它能这么做–中国没有其他团体能威胁它的执政地位，所以它不怕老百姓觉得恶心。再就是它必须这么做：它必须借助于强制手段隐瞒一些观点和事实，抑制一些看法，不这么做会导致比让人民反感更严重的后果–失去民心，直接威胁它的执政地位。为什么只有采取如此强制化的手段才能避免人民的反抗情绪升级呢？我认为是zf本质的腐朽。这就是我跟博主的最大分歧：我不认为中国zf的根本目的是为了让中国变得更强，人民的生活变得更好；而是让自己的政权更稳固，并利用这种权利为自己尤其是高层谋取最大的利益。虽然这两者有时候并不矛盾—在经济发展的同时zf自己的获利也会更多，并且保证人民生活达到一定水平是维持zf政权稳定的必要条件—-这也是zf为什么集中力量发展经济的原因，但事实表明在人民和政府的利益出现矛盾的时候，在不至于影响统治的情况下，公民的利益往往是绝对的牺牲品：官场层层剥削的潜规则，不公正的上访制度，政府背后利用特权获利的国营企业以及庞大的太子党集团…太多了，只要你深入体制内你就会发现，这种腐败不是平常想像的隐藏的，暗地里的，而是公开的甚至有法律支持的。如果高层只是旨在国家的发展，这些东西有必要么？凭借中国权利高度集中的制度，只要最高层真心想抓，根本不必实现完全的新闻自由，只需要鼓励和保护几家新闻媒体公开揭露党内的腐败现象，这种东西可以很快杜绝，这应该是与国于民甚至是对于党的统治稳定性都有利的事情，但为什么没有？很明显：仅仅是因为这样做会削弱党的利益。可能博主会说这种现象只是暂时的，是经济发展造成的，但我不这么认为，因为这种专制制度本身正是腐败的根源所在——贪婪是人的天性，单靠官员个人的意志力来克服是不可能的或者是不可靠的，不可能有一个政党能够单纯的靠自我监督维持清廉，一个政府结构是否优秀很大程度上在于它能否最大限度的抑制国家官员的贪婪，从而维持政府机关的效率。而专制意味这永远不可能有一个可信的监督机构来发现这种腐败，永远不可能有一个平等的竞争对手来促进政府的效率。因此政府最大的压力就是剩下来自于公民的不满，而brain wash正是为了最大程度的缓解这种由国际外交评论和国内腐败现象可能引发的群众不满，引导舆论，保证zf获得最大利益的工具而已。 最后是brain wash 所造成的效果，长期生活在brain wash的环境下，的确会让人第一时间不能客观的看待某些问题，这种影响不是理性上的，而是潜意识上的，比如一些中国人在接触对自己国家zf的尖锐批评的时候，即使是他本身并不觉得zf好在哪里，往往会有一种本能的反感，因为zf无时无刻不在提醒它的公民：党-人民-中华民族是三位一体的，党即人民，人民即党，于是对zf的批评在他眼里就变成了对自己对中华民族批评甚至侮辱，于是一场本来可以理性进行的讨论却变成了由感性驱动的对自身对民族的保卫战。 “Chinese people have enough wisdom and courage to solve their own problems.”这是新闻联播经常用来指责西方干预本国内政的话，正好体现了上述风格。I absolutely agree with the sentence itself, however, the critical point is: can we Chinese people really get a hand on our country’s affairs? Can the government of china really represent our opinions, desires and needs? Ps：对于博主所说的情况，我表示理解，brain washed有些时候很可能成为一些西方人士在遇到与自己政治意见向左的人时的挡箭牌，甚至可能成为一种针对全体中国人的歧视。但消除这种歧视的解决之道在于让更多的人认识到问题的根源，而不是继续对zf的这种赤裸裸的brain wash政策涂脂抹粉，这相当于是在宣称Chinese people need and glad to be arbitrary ruled and brainwashed.
Posted 22 Jun 2009 at 10:14 am ¶楼上 … 本文背景是08年3.14到奥运之间一系列关于西藏的事件。和你回复的主要内容并无太大关系。在我的文中明确说明了中国还存在的种种问题。
何况，如果国内的人都被brainwash了，那么为什么国内会有那么多思想激进的年轻人。你又怎么会发表那么慷慨激扬的留言呢？你的留言岂不是也证明了本文主旨”we are not brainwashed”吗?
Posted 22 Jun 2009 at 5:53 pm ¶J…我绝对不想否定你的主旨，说Chinese people are all brain-washed，而是想说Chinese government is indeed trying to brain-wash its people, the brain-washing system indeed exist in China, and the effect of this system can not be downplayed. 我之所以要说明这些，首先是因为在你的文章里，还有下面的有些回复中都有把government propaganda和brainwash 混为一谈的意思，大体是说中国zf的propaganda很失败没人信，西方国家的propaganda很成功，煽动性很强。于是中国没有brainwash而是西方在brainwash。这种逻辑有问题，brainwash主要不是宣传了什么，宣传的手法高不高明，而是采用强制手段抑制了什么，具体见上面。再就是想表达一下关于zf的与你不同的见解。一个国家肯定会有问题，这不是重点，中国走在一条快速发展经济的道路上，这我也不否认，关键是你在你的文章里始终认为zf的ultimate intention是为民为国的，一切的国内问题都是暂时的，或者是由于zf力所不及造成的，我不这么认为，理由同样见上面。还有，虽然brainwash虽然很形象的形容了zf的某些行为，但我从不认为一个人可以真正的被brainwashed，并且我完全反对形容任何一个人为brainwashed—-这影射着这个人的大脑被永恒的，不可逆的改造了，是侮辱人的标签。正如ps中提到的，这种brainwash只是利用国内封闭的新闻和舆论环境，用片面的新闻报道不停进行一种心理暗示，让人在这种暗示下无法全面的看问题，理性的思考而已，当一个人能够并且愿意接受各个方面信息的时候，独立的想法就会产生，brainwash的效果就会减弱。从这个角度来说所谓的brainwashed其实是temporarily, psychologically affected by an inhibited environment which is controlled by arbitrary government and can not be determined by Chinese people，所以让人们了解到这一点其实是消除brainwashed这种歧视称号的最好方法。而不是声称这种很明显的brain wash 体制在中国根本不存在。 最后，这种影响具体到个人，随个人接触到东西的不同有大有小，并不是一种定性的label，但生活在中国的人或多或少都会受其影响（从这个意义上讲我尽管我发表了上述“慷慨激扬”的留言，但我没觉得我自己是个“unbrainwashed”）并且由于在国内能接触到多元化信息的毕竟是少数，所以不管有多少“激进青年”（其实激进青年反而可能是受影响最深的一批人）， 这种效果从宏观上而言在国内的影响是巨大的，至少它足以操纵很多事情上的主流民意。
Posted 23 Jun 2009 at 6:44 am ¶” Chinese people have enough wisdom and courage to solve their own problems.”
That’s what’s called DEMOCRACY. This is the central contradiction in these arguments from most Chinese. “We Chinese can choose our own way”, “We Chinese can solve our own problems”, but you can’t. CAN NOT without a democratic apparatus in place. You constantly say you don’t trust the government of China. Do you trust them to do right by you? Do you trust them to be fair? Do you trust them to help and support your people? The resounding answer from the majority of Chinese I talk to, educated and uneducated is NO, NO, NO. If you don’t trust them with your own family, your own culture, and your own people, why would you expect a different nationality to trust them?
The Chinese government has never earned the respect, nor the trust of the Chinese people. When questions are asked those who ask are bullied into submission or imprisoned. Look what happened to Ai Weiwei, who should be considered a national hero for designing the Bird’s Nest. The SAME YEAR as the Olympics he was beaten nearly to death by Chinese police only for supporting the rights of parents to question what happened to their Children.
Posted 09 Jan 2010 at 8:41 pm ¶Hi Lee,
Ai Weiwei was really not that important for the Bird’s Nest… He was merely one of many people involved and was not the main designer. He was just a “Artistic consultant”. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_National_Stadium. Being a self-important person, he claim he designed the Bird’s Nest.
What he said/did in recent years hasn’t earned him much respect/credibility in my mind. I’d like to see a credible report that he was beaten up by the Chinese government.
Having stayed in the US for 7 years, I cannot say for sure who trust their government more, the average Chinese or the average American. The Chinese hate corruption, but at least most people believe the government will take care of them in difficult times (think about the earthquake in 2008, and the floods in 1998 and 1999). I cannot say the same for the US.
Posted 24 Jan 2010 at 1:07 am ¶Post a Comment